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	<title>Comments on: Request for Help: Need better guidance for beginners</title>
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	<link>http://lostechies.com/chadmyers/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners/</link>
	<description>Software development, testing, and techie life</description>
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		<title>By: Justice~!</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/chadmyers/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners/#comment-664</link>
		<dc:creator>Justice~!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 21:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/chad_myers/archive/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners.aspx#comment-664</guid>
		<description>I like this idea, let&#039;s chat more about it when you have some cycles free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like this idea, let&#8217;s chat more about it when you have some cycles free.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Lindsey</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/chadmyers/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners/#comment-663</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Lindsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/chad_myers/archive/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners.aspx#comment-663</guid>
		<description>I added to ideas I have had and linked them on the front page along with Chad&#039;s page.  Also i left a discussion point on chad&#039;s page.  I like the way to do discussions on wikis without having to interfere with the main article but is all there to be specific to the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I added to ideas I have had and linked them on the front page along with Chad&#8217;s page.  Also i left a discussion point on chad&#8217;s page.  I like the way to do discussions on wikis without having to interfere with the main article but is all there to be specific to the article.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/chadmyers/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners/#comment-662</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/chad_myers/archive/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners.aspx#comment-662</guid>
		<description>Nice. I like the thoroughness and the presentation (from a macro perspective). I&#039;m pretty sure ScrewTurn allows you to futz with styles in a way that we can maybe leverage to get closer to what you imagine on the formatting. Are there any specifics on fonts, boxes and colors that you want to suggest?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice. I like the thoroughness and the presentation (from a macro perspective). I&#8217;m pretty sure ScrewTurn allows you to futz with styles in a way that we can maybe leverage to get closer to what you imagine on the formatting. Are there any specifics on fonts, boxes and colors that you want to suggest?</p>
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		<title>By: Chad Myers</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/chadmyers/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners/#comment-661</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/chad_myers/archive/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners.aspx#comment-661</guid>
		<description>@Jacob:

I think it&#039;s great that you&#039;re getting something going! Let&#039;s try out a few things and I believe the community will decide and things will shake themselves out naturally.

One idea I had for the article format was something like this (imagine better typeface, better organization with boxes and colors around the Caveats and Alternative Viewpoints, etc):

http://duhvelopment.com/(X(1)S(ovbyxr450uvaedqhibkqfjf5))/Article_Format.ashx
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jacob:</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s great that you&#8217;re getting something going! Let&#8217;s try out a few things and I believe the community will decide and things will shake themselves out naturally.</p>
<p>One idea I had for the article format was something like this (imagine better typeface, better organization with boxes and colors around the Caveats and Alternative Viewpoints, etc):</p>
<p><a href="http://duhvelopment.com/(X(1)S(ovbyxr450uvaedqhibkqfjf5)" rel="nofollow">http://duhvelopment.com/(X(1)S(ovbyxr450uvaedqhibkqfjf5)</a>)/Article_Format.ashx</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/chadmyers/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners/#comment-660</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/chad_myers/archive/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners.aspx#comment-660</guid>
		<description>@Buddy: I couldn&#039;t agree more. I got duhvelopment.com set up as a wiki if you want to start dumping your ideas there. I&#039;ll leave it up as long as it is useful. I&#039;m sure we can export to whatever domain we end up with--though exports from wikis aren&#039;t uncomplicated (if the new space is using Screwturn wiki, it&#039;s an easy process).

P.S. I&#039;m not trying to pre-empt Chad&#039;s domain input by getting duhvelopment.com going. We&#039;ll work out getting things translated when needed. I agree with Chad&#039;s ideas, so please don&#039;t take this as hostile action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Buddy: I couldn&#8217;t agree more. I got duhvelopment.com set up as a wiki if you want to start dumping your ideas there. I&#8217;ll leave it up as long as it is useful. I&#8217;m sure we can export to whatever domain we end up with&#8211;though exports from wikis aren&#8217;t uncomplicated (if the new space is using Screwturn wiki, it&#8217;s an easy process).</p>
<p>P.S. I&#8217;m not trying to pre-empt Chad&#8217;s domain input by getting duhvelopment.com going. We&#8217;ll work out getting things translated when needed. I agree with Chad&#8217;s ideas, so please don&#8217;t take this as hostile action.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Lindsey</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/chadmyers/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners/#comment-659</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Lindsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 14:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/chad_myers/archive/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners.aspx#comment-659</guid>
		<description>Personally I think a good appraoch to start is to maybe setup a forum or something on the site to start with and gets ome discussion to really maybe nail down the site needs. 

I can see the use of a wiki maybe as a starting point and as we find problems or come up with better ways to solve problems we can maybe write a custom site or something if that is needed.  I see however the biggest problem to getting this going is to get bogged down in allt he details upfront and discouraging anything from happening because we arne&#039;t doing it the right way to begin with.

Personally I have a lot of ideas that I just want to brain dump somehwere that i think could really help make this successful but they need to be discussed, weighed and thought out.

Again we aren&#039;t going to get it right out the shoot, but the biggest msitake is doing nothing at all.  We can make it right eventually.  Besides we are coders we never do it right the first time ;)  I mean just go look at code you wrote 6 months ago. hehe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally I think a good appraoch to start is to maybe setup a forum or something on the site to start with and gets ome discussion to really maybe nail down the site needs. </p>
<p>I can see the use of a wiki maybe as a starting point and as we find problems or come up with better ways to solve problems we can maybe write a custom site or something if that is needed.  I see however the biggest problem to getting this going is to get bogged down in allt he details upfront and discouraging anything from happening because we arne&#8217;t doing it the right way to begin with.</p>
<p>Personally I have a lot of ideas that I just want to brain dump somehwere that i think could really help make this successful but they need to be discussed, weighed and thought out.</p>
<p>Again we aren&#8217;t going to get it right out the shoot, but the biggest msitake is doing nothing at all.  We can make it right eventually.  Besides we are coders we never do it right the first time ;)  I mean just go look at code you wrote 6 months ago. hehe.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/chadmyers/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners/#comment-658</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 14:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/chad_myers/archive/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners.aspx#comment-658</guid>
		<description>Happy to help and it&#039;s an effort I can get behind. I&#039;d be happy to do moderation work and admin if needed or useful. Bonus being that I&#039;m not in any particular time-crunch at the moment so can get something up while this particular iron is still hot. Also, I understand what you mean about the domain and while I like startingwith.net &#039;okay&#039;, I share Nathan&#039;s concern that it is perhaps too limiting. I&#039;d prefer something with connotations that go beyond mere beginners.

re: wiki or not. Using a wiki format gets us up fast and you can use conventions and active moderation to overcome most of the objections--at least to start. For example, there is no practical difference between an essay and a wiki entry--an essay is simply a specific format for an article. A CMS of some kind might work, but I&#039;d rather *not* go with any of the community/forumy things out there (although I foresee an eventual need for some kind of discussion format type space to discuss issues, policies, etc.).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happy to help and it&#8217;s an effort I can get behind. I&#8217;d be happy to do moderation work and admin if needed or useful. Bonus being that I&#8217;m not in any particular time-crunch at the moment so can get something up while this particular iron is still hot. Also, I understand what you mean about the domain and while I like startingwith.net &#8216;okay&#8217;, I share Nathan&#8217;s concern that it is perhaps too limiting. I&#8217;d prefer something with connotations that go beyond mere beginners.</p>
<p>re: wiki or not. Using a wiki format gets us up fast and you can use conventions and active moderation to overcome most of the objections&#8211;at least to start. For example, there is no practical difference between an essay and a wiki entry&#8211;an essay is simply a specific format for an article. A CMS of some kind might work, but I&#8217;d rather *not* go with any of the community/forumy things out there (although I foresee an eventual need for some kind of discussion format type space to discuss issues, policies, etc.).</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/chadmyers/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners/#comment-657</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 05:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/chad_myers/archive/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners.aspx#comment-657</guid>
		<description>Startingwith.net is a good domain name, but possibly a little bit limiting. I completely agree that the community could use a rallying point, with some good editorial oversight, but something beyond a Wiki. I think it is a tall order though - to do any better than what already exists - in an ad hoc way. Not that there isn&#039;t always room for one more community site, one ALT.NET oriented or &quot;fundamentals&quot; oriented if you want it to be, but there is, as you have identified, a real need for something different, more professional, more polished, but also something beyond a Wiki, that takes advantage of modern social networking and at the same time ties together the myriad sources of top quality content already on the web. For a new website to really fill the hole that exists it will have to be very well conceived, well executed, and be backed by a significant investment of time, if not capital.

I believe achieving your goal will be more complicated than throwing up yet another site and giving it a try. Why not set up a community site, using one of the many crowd-sourcing or community tools available on the web, to collaboratively design this thing? Beyond taking comments on your blog, why not set up a space to formally flesh out and publicly debate what needs to be done differently than what already exists? There are so many brilliant, passionate minds in this neck of the woods, I think the potential is there for something amazing to emerge.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Startingwith.net is a good domain name, but possibly a little bit limiting. I completely agree that the community could use a rallying point, with some good editorial oversight, but something beyond a Wiki. I think it is a tall order though &#8211; to do any better than what already exists &#8211; in an ad hoc way. Not that there isn&#8217;t always room for one more community site, one ALT.NET oriented or &#8220;fundamentals&#8221; oriented if you want it to be, but there is, as you have identified, a real need for something different, more professional, more polished, but also something beyond a Wiki, that takes advantage of modern social networking and at the same time ties together the myriad sources of top quality content already on the web. For a new website to really fill the hole that exists it will have to be very well conceived, well executed, and be backed by a significant investment of time, if not capital.</p>
<p>I believe achieving your goal will be more complicated than throwing up yet another site and giving it a try. Why not set up a community site, using one of the many crowd-sourcing or community tools available on the web, to collaboratively design this thing? Beyond taking comments on your blog, why not set up a space to formally flesh out and publicly debate what needs to be done differently than what already exists? There are so many brilliant, passionate minds in this neck of the woods, I think the potential is there for something amazing to emerge.</p>
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		<title>By: Chad Myers</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/chadmyers/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners/#comment-656</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/chad_myers/archive/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners.aspx#comment-656</guid>
		<description>@Sheo:

I agree, we should put up something similar in its place. I&#039;ll try to get something to you asap. Unfortunately I&#039;m snowed under right now preparing for the Pablo&#039;s Days of TDD event this weekend, but after that my schedule will free up a bit.

I&#039;ll try to get something to you this week with something more meaty next week, is that OK?

@Jacob:  I&#039;d love to have your help.  I&#039;m not crazy about that domain name (actually, I love it, but not for this particular effort, we should talk off-line about some other ideas for that awesome domain name).

I just registered &quot;Startingwith.net&quot;  What do ya&#039;ll think?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sheo:</p>
<p>I agree, we should put up something similar in its place. I&#8217;ll try to get something to you asap. Unfortunately I&#8217;m snowed under right now preparing for the Pablo&#8217;s Days of TDD event this weekend, but after that my schedule will free up a bit.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll try to get something to you this week with something more meaty next week, is that OK?</p>
<p>@Jacob:  I&#8217;d love to have your help.  I&#8217;m not crazy about that domain name (actually, I love it, but not for this particular effort, we should talk off-line about some other ideas for that awesome domain name).</p>
<p>I just registered &#8220;Startingwith.net&#8221;  What do ya&#8217;ll think?</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Lindsey</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/chadmyers/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners/#comment-655</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Lindsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/chad_myers/archive/2008/09/28/request-for-help-need-better-guidance-for-beginners.aspx#comment-655</guid>
		<description>I like the essay-counter-essay idea as tedium in explanations helps us all.  The writer to make sure they convey the message, and the reader to give them as many points as possible to learn from.

I am personally at a stuck point on debate style since that can get VERY long and people can get lost, but I like the idea since it will help to flesh out concepts and ideas better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the essay-counter-essay idea as tedium in explanations helps us all.  The writer to make sure they convey the message, and the reader to give them as many points as possible to learn from.</p>
<p>I am personally at a stuck point on debate style since that can get VERY long and people can get lost, but I like the idea since it will help to flesh out concepts and ideas better.</p>
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