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	<title>Comments on: Separation of Concerns by example: Part 3</title>
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	<link>http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2008/06/27/separation-of-concerns-by-example-part-3/</link>
	<description>Strong opinions, weakly held</description>
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		<title>By: An Phu</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2008/06/27/separation-of-concerns-by-example-part-3/#comment-648</link>
		<dc:creator>An Phu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 07:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/jimmy_bogard/archive/2008/06/26/separation-of-concerns-by-example-part-3.aspx#comment-648</guid>
		<description>So, there is no place for ReadOnlyCollection?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, there is no place for ReadOnlyCollection?</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy Bogard</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2008/06/27/separation-of-concerns-by-example-part-3/#comment-647</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy Bogard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 04:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@randy

I wouldn&#039;t say bad necessarily, but I do operate under the assumption that I modeled it wrong the first time.  And the second time probably too.  It&#039;s more of the idea of not waiting to have all the information, as the exercise of creating the model brings out information.

Trying the model out in practice for a week or month helps show where the weak points are, what invalid assumptions you had and what you missed.  It&#039;s more of an evolution.

But sometimes you have to wait for enough responsibilities to be floating around before you realize there is a concept there wanting to get out.  I have found I&#039;m much better at refactoring than designing (because my designs are usually wrong).

I used to feel a little bad about having a bad model after I realized it was bad.  &quot;Why couldn&#039;t I see that earlier?&quot; and such.  But all I can do is model what I know, not try to model what I don&#039;t know, and create an ecosystem that&#039;s easy to change, so when I can see the right model, I have no fear of change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@randy</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t say bad necessarily, but I do operate under the assumption that I modeled it wrong the first time.  And the second time probably too.  It&#8217;s more of the idea of not waiting to have all the information, as the exercise of creating the model brings out information.</p>
<p>Trying the model out in practice for a week or month helps show where the weak points are, what invalid assumptions you had and what you missed.  It&#8217;s more of an evolution.</p>
<p>But sometimes you have to wait for enough responsibilities to be floating around before you realize there is a concept there wanting to get out.  I have found I&#8217;m much better at refactoring than designing (because my designs are usually wrong).</p>
<p>I used to feel a little bad about having a bad model after I realized it was bad.  &#8220;Why couldn&#8217;t I see that earlier?&#8221; and such.  But all I can do is model what I know, not try to model what I don&#8217;t know, and create an ecosystem that&#8217;s easy to change, so when I can see the right model, I have no fear of change.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: randy</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2008/06/27/separation-of-concerns-by-example-part-3/#comment-646</link>
		<dc:creator>randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 20:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/jimmy_bogard/archive/2008/06/26/separation-of-concerns-by-example-part-3.aspx#comment-646</guid>
		<description>I found the set of articles EXTREMELY useful in getting comfortable with writing code with separation of concerns fully addressed. It almost appears to me that it may be more productive to write the code badly at first and then refactor to code that has concerns separated.  Am I wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found the set of articles EXTREMELY useful in getting comfortable with writing code with separation of concerns fully addressed. It almost appears to me that it may be more productive to write the code badly at first and then refactor to code that has concerns separated.  Am I wrong?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jimmy Bogard</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2008/06/27/separation-of-concerns-by-example-part-3/#comment-645</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy Bogard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/jimmy_bogard/archive/2008/06/26/separation-of-concerns-by-example-part-3.aspx#comment-645</guid>
		<description>@Josh

What do you mean?  This is legacy code, so no unit tests are currently in place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Josh</p>
<p>What do you mean?  This is legacy code, so no unit tests are currently in place.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2008/06/27/separation-of-concerns-by-example-part-3/#comment-644</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/jimmy_bogard/archive/2008/06/26/separation-of-concerns-by-example-part-3.aspx#comment-644</guid>
		<description>Just wondering... how are you automatically testing your Repository methods (and profiler doesn&#039;t count :) )?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wondering&#8230; how are you automatically testing your Repository methods (and profiler doesn&#8217;t count <img src='http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  )?</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2008/06/27/separation-of-concerns-by-example-part-3/#comment-643</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/jimmy_bogard/archive/2008/06/26/separation-of-concerns-by-example-part-3.aspx#comment-643</guid>
		<description>Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks!</p>
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