A sign of team maturity

You know you have a mature team when, nine months into a project, your testing stats are:

  • 2384 unit tests
  • 606 integration tests
  • 205 UI/acceptance tests

And no one is asking to throw a party.  In past teams, we would mark milestones, “500 tests, hooray!!”.  With my current team, quality is not a goal, it’s a requirement for success.  These stats tell us that we’re merely fulfilling expectations, of both our management and ourselves.  A bar set high is a good thing.

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About Jimmy Bogard

I'm a technical architect with Headspring in Austin, TX. I focus on DDD, distributed systems, and any other acronym-centric design/architecture/methodology. I created AutoMapper and am a co-author of the ASP.NET MVC in Action books.
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  • Jeremy Gray

    Out of curiosity, what size/disposition of team are these stats from?

  • http://www.lostechies.com/members/bogardj/default.aspx bogardj

    @Jeremy

    Around 6-7 developers, all senior level.

  • Jeremy Gray

    Thanks, Jimmy, the context is definitely helpful.

  • http://www.codebucket.org Lee Brandt

    Jealous, jealous, jealous…. MAN! I’m jealous…. way to go man

  • http://www.52m.be Cohen

    Very nice…
    are there any nBehave scenario’s in there?

  • http://www.lostechies.com/members/chadmyers/default.aspx chadmyers

    ONLY 2,384 tests? Back in my day, we had 2,000 tests on the FIRST DAY and that was coding uphill, both ways in the snow.

    We had black and amber 8″ CRT monitors and stored our tests on 8 1/2″ floppy disks!

  • peiklk

    This is only a sign of maturity if you’ve bought into TDD. A quality product is the sign of maturity, not the method that got you there.

  • http://www.lostechies.com/members/bogardj/default.aspx bogardj

    @chadmyers

    And you only coded with your thumbs too, right?

    @Cohen

    Ahhhh….none. We’re using Gallio for our acceptance/UI tests. It allows for parallel execution + test steps for readable reports.

  • http://www.lostechies.com/members/bogardj/default.aspx bogardj

    @peiklk

    Sorry, think I miscommunicated there. The sign of maturity was not the # of tests, but rather no one felt the need to celebrate a certain milestone.

  • http://timbarcz.devlicio.us Tim Barcz

    This is cool….some questions:

    What coverage does 2384 unit tests represent and what kind of freedom does it give you?

    Are you integration tests automated? If so, when do they run? If not, when do you run them?

    Howare you doing UI/acceptance tests? Manual? Automated (WatiN/WatiR/etc? Mix?

  • http://www.lostechies.com/members/bogardj/default.aspx bogardj

    @Tim

    What coverage does 2384 unit tests represent and what kind of freedom does it give you?

    No idea the coverage. Something like 95-99% on our core domain, maybe 80% on the rest? As far as freedom goes, we have a lot of confidence that we won’t break anything, but we’re looking at adding more integration tests (slow, higher-level) that enable bigger refactorings where we’re not afraid to throw away tests.

    Are you integration tests automated? If so, when do they run? If not, when do you run them?

    Yes, all the time, locally and on the server.

    Howare you doing UI/acceptance tests? Manual? Automated (WatiN/WatiR/etc? Mix?

    WatiN, w/ gallio, automated in a cascaded build. A report is generated that the QA guys care about from the results. Devs write the tests, with some fluenty domain-specific interface on top of WatiN.

  • http://enceradeira.blogspot.com/ JJ

    I would like to know how an integration test and how a UI/accpetance test typically looks like in your team? How do you setup, cleanup those tests? Do you use mocks or stubs for those tests? What’s the execution time of your testsuite?

    Could you post something about that?

  • Fen

    “And no one is asking to throw a party. In past teams, we would mark milestones, “500 tests, hooray!!”

    Erm, thats exactly what you are doing writing posts like this!

  • http://www.lostechies.com/members/bogardj/default.aspx bogardj

    @Fen

    Nah, I’m celebrating that we don’t celebrate. TOTALLY different :)