Comments on: When to use NHibernate http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/ Strong opinions, weakly held Fri, 17 May 2013 09:02:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Taz http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-5423 Taz Wed, 09 Jan 2013 10:17:00 +0000 http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-5423 Interesting discussion. I had to evaluate ORM's for my company over a year back and in the end we ended up using LLBLGen Pro. We have one nHibernate guy who seems to hate it but everyone else likes it :) Interesting discussion.

I had to evaluate ORM’s for my company over a year back and in the end we ended up using LLBLGen Pro. We have one nHibernate guy who seems to hate it but everyone else likes it :)

]]> By: jbogard http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-5266 jbogard Wed, 07 Nov 2012 13:21:00 +0000 http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-5266 Nope, you're pretty much stuck with an actual ORM or a doc DB. But I don't think that's too horrible, if you need advanced features, you'll need a full-featured tool. Nope, you’re pretty much stuck with an actual ORM or a doc DB. But I don’t think that’s too horrible, if you need advanced features, you’ll need a full-featured tool.

]]> By: Joe http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-5262 Joe Tue, 06 Nov 2012 22:12:00 +0000 http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-5262 It seems to come from the lack of cascading saves and lazy loading. For example, take an Order that has multiple OrderItems. We define an aggregate that just contains these to objects. The aggregate root, Order that has a collection of OrderItems, through the root we can add and remove items as needed, then we can save that root and have both the Order and its OrderItems persisted. So we have nice neat POCO objects. Using a micro-orm we fall back to a repository pattern or we put persistence in the Order via a "Save" method that would coordinate the persistence, but this gets away from the POCO style objects. The only time I have seen aggregates modeled with persistence used the "big database frameworks" such as NH or EF or document databases like RavenDB. So if you had some secrets on doing the same with a micro-orm I was hoping you may share them. :D It seems to come from the lack of cascading saves and lazy loading.

For example, take an Order that has multiple OrderItems. We define an aggregate that just contains these to objects. The aggregate root, Order that has a collection of OrderItems, through the root we can add and remove items as needed, then we can save that root and have both the Order and its OrderItems persisted. So we have nice neat POCO objects. Using a micro-orm we fall back to a repository pattern or we put persistence in the Order via a “Save” method that would coordinate the persistence, but this gets away from the POCO style objects.

The only time I have seen aggregates modeled with persistence used the “big database frameworks” such as NH or EF or document databases like RavenDB.
So if you had some secrets on doing the same with a micro-orm I was hoping you may share them. :D

]]> By: jbogard http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-5253 jbogard Tue, 06 Nov 2012 03:21:00 +0000 http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-5253 What sorts of walls? What sorts of walls?

]]> By: Joe http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-5250 Joe Mon, 05 Nov 2012 16:11:00 +0000 http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-5250 Any advice on using some of these micro-orms in the DDD, Bounded Context arena? We us NH, quite a bit, but we have started looking for "simpler" options in the micro-orm space, but are hitting some walls when looking at Bounded Contexts and Aggregate Roots. Any advice on using some of these micro-orms in the DDD, Bounded Context arena? We us NH, quite a bit, but we have started looking for “simpler” options in the micro-orm space, but are hitting some walls when looking at Bounded Contexts and Aggregate Roots.

]]> By: Paul Barton http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-4116 Paul Barton Mon, 21 Nov 2011 23:05:00 +0000 http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-4116 The thing I dislike about Massive is that there are NO tests in the project! https://github.com/robconery/massive The thing I dislike about Massive is that there are NO tests in the project! https://github.com/robconery/massive

]]> By: The Morning Brew - Chris Alcock » The Morning Brew #985 http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-4114 The Morning Brew - Chris Alcock » The Morning Brew #985 Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:36:24 +0000 http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-4114 [...] When to use NHibernate - Jimmy Bogard follows up the discussion sharing his view point and the persistence technology he is looking to use in difference scenarios. [...] [...] When to use NHibernate – Jimmy Bogard follows up the discussion sharing his view point and the persistence technology he is looking to use in difference scenarios. [...]

]]> By: Anonymous http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-4111 Anonymous Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:20:00 +0000 http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-4111 A lot of times we're constrained on what our hosting provider allows. But, a lot of the times we don't even consider options (when we probably should) A lot of times we’re constrained on what our hosting provider allows. But, a lot of the times we don’t even consider options (when we probably should)

]]> By: Steve Sheldon http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-4110 Steve Sheldon Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:09:00 +0000 http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-4110 A few of my fellow developers were talking about this a few months back, mainly in relation to EF, but NHibernate offers the same puzzle.  We like the ORM for mapping out an aggregate root and it's various entities, values, etc. for retrieval and then the change tracking for updates. What we don't like is the query language.   LINQ or other, the reality is that there is a great DSL out there that is very expressive, well known, and readable and it's called SQL.  So just using a micro-ORM seems really appealing in this scenario. The biggest problem with that division of responsibility is the data schema, and that's when the CQRS pattern starts to come into play because it segregates that between reads and writes.  But then you start questioning why you have a write schema that is relational...   Or even a read schema that is relational. So I'm looking forward to Ayende's next post. :-) A few of my fellow developers were talking about this a few months back, mainly in relation to EF, but NHibernate offers the same puzzle.  We like the ORM for mapping out an aggregate root and it’s various entities, values, etc. for retrieval and then the change tracking for updates.

What we don’t like is the query language.   LINQ or other, the reality is that there is a great DSL out there that is very expressive, well known, and readable and it’s called SQL.  So just using a micro-ORM seems really appealing in this scenario.

The biggest problem with that division of responsibility is the data schema, and that’s when the CQRS pattern starts to come into play because it segregates that between reads and writes.  But then you start questioning why you have a write schema that is relational…   Or even a read schema that is relational.

So I’m looking forward to Ayende’s next post. :-)

]]> By: Bogdan Marian http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-4109 Bogdan Marian Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:02:00 +0000 http://lostechies.com/jimmybogard/2011/11/18/when-to-use-nhibernate/#comment-4109 Ok, but why use then a "relational" DBMS? Why not using a key-value store or big table?  Ok, but why use then a “relational” DBMS? Why not using a key-value store or big table? 

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