Comments on: …Programmers still in the Dark Ages??? http://lostechies.com/joeocampo/2007/09/27/programmers-still-in-the-dark-ages/ Tales from the field... Sat, 11 Feb 2012 08:43:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Sean Chambers http://lostechies.com/joeocampo/2007/09/27/programmers-still-in-the-dark-ages/#comment-213 Sean Chambers Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:33:40 +0000 /blogs/joe_ocampo/archive/2007/09/27/programmers-still-in-the-dark-ages.aspx#comment-213 I always laugh when I hear someone coming through a "silver bullet". At the current moment, with current tools and languages there is no such thing, nor do I see a silver bullet coming anytime soon. To quote Joe from one of his posts, "It depends". This seems to be on alot of peoples minds lately, this is no exception. Just someone trying to cash in and develop buzz which he seems to be doing well with an article on cnet. Just like you said Jason in your last sentance that it sounds like this guy is just taking Agile/BDD/TDD ideas and just repackaging them to create a market for his company. I firmly believe there is a "silver bullet" out there, but I think we are still a long way off from it. I think we are headed in right direction, namely with ubiquitos languages. Although there needs to be much more development in the area of tools for this to happen. All in due time. I always laugh when I hear someone coming through a “silver bullet”. At the current moment, with current tools and languages there is no such thing, nor do I see a silver bullet coming anytime soon. To quote Joe from one of his posts, “It depends”. This seems to be on alot of peoples minds lately, this is no exception. Just someone trying to cash in and develop buzz which he seems to be doing well with an article on cnet.

Just like you said Jason in your last sentance that it sounds like this guy is just taking Agile/BDD/TDD ideas and just repackaging them to create a market for his company.

I firmly believe there is a “silver bullet” out there, but I think we are still a long way off from it. I think we are headed in right direction, namely with ubiquitos languages. Although there needs to be much more development in the area of tools for this to happen. All in due time.

]]> By: jssingh http://lostechies.com/joeocampo/2007/09/27/programmers-still-in-the-dark-ages/#comment-212 jssingh Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:54:11 +0000 /blogs/joe_ocampo/archive/2007/09/27/programmers-still-in-the-dark-ages.aspx#comment-212 BDD, DDD and the Ubiquitous language are not mainstream terms yet even though they are getting there. The community is playing catch up to the Agile revolution and they certainly realize the mess they are in currently with their existing processes. Someone's got to get these terms out there in the community, and I mean really out there. For all of us, who have striven for such practices for the betterment of software, these may not be new terms. @Joey - I do agree that code generators can only do so much, yet Eric Evans book talk about a framework (Naked Objects) in progress which will take the domain model (or the diagram in this case) and spit out code based on it. I personally don't buy into such a framework as I don't buy into tool generated code because of obvious reasons. The biggest one is maintainability. BDD, DDD and the Ubiquitous language are not mainstream terms yet even though they are getting there. The community is playing catch up to the Agile revolution and they certainly realize the mess they are in currently with their existing processes. Someone’s got to get these terms out there in the community, and I mean really out there. For all of us, who have striven for such practices for the betterment of software, these may not be new terms.

@Joey – I do agree that code generators can only do so much, yet Eric Evans book talk about a framework (Naked Objects) in progress which will take the domain model (or the diagram in this case) and spit out code based on it. I personally don’t buy into such a framework as I don’t buy into tool generated code because of obvious reasons. The biggest one is maintainability.

]]> By: Joe Ocampo http://lostechies.com/joeocampo/2007/09/27/programmers-still-in-the-dark-ages/#comment-211 Joe Ocampo Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:09:52 +0000 /blogs/joe_ocampo/archive/2007/09/27/programmers-still-in-the-dark-ages.aspx#comment-211 Exactly! It is funny how if you get a name in front of a known idea it becomes accepted. Maybe I can get Bill gates to support the "idea" of Windows developers using Macs! LOL Exactly! It is funny how if you get a name in front of a known idea it becomes accepted.

Maybe I can get Bill gates to support the “idea” of Windows developers using Macs! LOL

]]> By: joeyDotNet http://lostechies.com/joeocampo/2007/09/27/programmers-still-in-the-dark-ages/#comment-210 joeyDotNet Thu, 27 Sep 2007 09:16:59 +0000 /blogs/joe_ocampo/archive/2007/09/27/programmers-still-in-the-dark-ages.aspx#comment-210 From the article: "This transfer of requirements from businesspeople to programmers is problematic because the parties speak different languages and companies' needs change. " And isn't this the whole point of us striving to have a Ubiquitous Language? Also from article: "Intentional's technology is designed to enable businesspeople to express their requirements in a way that doesn't demand that they learn computer languages. It is also designed to help software engineers generate code based on businesspeople's requirement descriptions. " Should've known! Why do some people think code generation is always the solution?!? This reeks of DND (Drag-n-Drop) "enterprise" applications. And well, there is certainly nothing new about that terrible practice. Again from article: ""Businesspeople lack the means of expressing themselves. Our proposition is to fully integrate domain experts into software development," Simonyi said. " Umm, yeah. Does anybody really think it *wouldn't* be a good idea to have domain experts heavily involved in the team? Is this really a new epiphany? From the article:
“This transfer of requirements from businesspeople to programmers is problematic because the parties speak different languages and companies’ needs change. ”

And isn’t this the whole point of us striving to have a Ubiquitous Language?

Also from article:
“Intentional’s technology is designed to enable businesspeople to express their requirements in a way that doesn’t demand that they learn computer languages. It is also designed to help software engineers generate code based on businesspeople’s requirement descriptions. ”

Should’ve known! Why do some people think code generation is always the solution?!? This reeks of DND (Drag-n-Drop) “enterprise” applications. And well, there is certainly nothing new about that terrible practice.

Again from article:
“”Businesspeople lack the means of expressing themselves. Our proposition is to fully integrate domain experts into software development,” Simonyi said. ”

Umm, yeah. Does anybody really think it *wouldn’t* be a good idea to have domain experts heavily involved in the team? Is this really a new epiphany?

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