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	<title>Comments on: Droppin&#8217; Pennies on context specs&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://lostechies.com/mokhan/2008/08/15/droppin-pennies-on-context-specs/</link>
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		<title>By: Sean Kearon</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/mokhan/2008/08/15/droppin-pennies-on-context-specs/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Kearon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 07:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/mokhan/archive/2008/08/15/droppin-pennies-on-context-specs.aspx#comment-23</guid>
		<description>Mo, this is a simple and great idea and I love it!  I use the syntax on the test classes already, but hadn&#039;t thought of using it for the fixtures.  When you do the test output reads just great!

Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mo, this is a simple and great idea and I love it!  I use the syntax on the test classes already, but hadn&#8217;t thought of using it for the fixtures.  When you do the test output reads just great!</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: mO</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/mokhan/2008/08/15/droppin-pennies-on-context-specs/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>mO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 04:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/mokhan/archive/2008/08/15/droppin-pennies-on-context-specs.aspx#comment-22</guid>
		<description>@James
Thanks for the kind input. I&#039;ll see what I can dig up for ya!

@Joey
Hmm... I&#039;m not sure I get the &quot;when given&quot; syntax, but I think I understand what you&#039;re trying to get at. For our team.. under these conditions IS establishing the context.

So we read them as &quot;when creating a new account for a user with a  valid submission it should inform the user that the account was created&quot; 

My experience with this style of testing so far has been that the &quot;jump around&quot; has decreased. Once you understand the context you read the &quot;test&quot; and should be able to immediately understand what is failing.

Regardless of what team you jump into there&#039;s always going to be time needed understanding that teams style of development. But you bring up some valid points, that I will definitely have to think over. Thanks for your input!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@James<br />
Thanks for the kind input. I&#8217;ll see what I can dig up for ya!</p>
<p>@Joey<br />
Hmm&#8230; I&#8217;m not sure I get the &#8220;when given&#8221; syntax, but I think I understand what you&#8217;re trying to get at. For our team.. under these conditions IS establishing the context.</p>
<p>So we read them as &#8220;when creating a new account for a user with a  valid submission it should inform the user that the account was created&#8221; </p>
<p>My experience with this style of testing so far has been that the &#8220;jump around&#8221; has decreased. Once you understand the context you read the &#8220;test&#8221; and should be able to immediately understand what is failing.</p>
<p>Regardless of what team you jump into there&#8217;s always going to be time needed understanding that teams style of development. But you bring up some valid points, that I will definitely have to think over. Thanks for your input!</p>
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		<title>By: joey</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/mokhan/2008/08/15/droppin-pennies-on-context-specs/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/mokhan/archive/2008/08/15/droppin-pennies-on-context-specs.aspx#comment-21</guid>
		<description>Hmm interesting putting the &quot;establish context&quot; below the specifications.

So I understand the readability aspect of it and sharing the same language as the business user.  But I believe you are forgetting the &quot;other&quot; user, &quot;me&quot;, the next developer that will maintain this codebase.  If I am unaware of the Context/Specification style and just coming into your project, it seems out of order.

- When given
- it should
- under these conditions
- because of

That doesn&#039;t read well to me as the developer ... think of the flow of tests it is going to run.

- When given
- Under these conditions
- because of
- it should

It reads well for the business user and the flow of the tests as well for a maintenance developer.

Remember, tests are supposed to be easy to understand!  If I have to jump around the code to figure out the flow, that is a &quot;test smell&quot; to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm interesting putting the &#8220;establish context&#8221; below the specifications.</p>
<p>So I understand the readability aspect of it and sharing the same language as the business user.  But I believe you are forgetting the &#8220;other&#8221; user, &#8220;me&#8221;, the next developer that will maintain this codebase.  If I am unaware of the Context/Specification style and just coming into your project, it seems out of order.</p>
<p>- When given<br />
- it should<br />
- under these conditions<br />
- because of</p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t read well to me as the developer &#8230; think of the flow of tests it is going to run.</p>
<p>- When given<br />
- Under these conditions<br />
- because of<br />
- it should</p>
<p>It reads well for the business user and the flow of the tests as well for a maintenance developer.</p>
<p>Remember, tests are supposed to be easy to understand!  If I have to jump around the code to figure out the flow, that is a &#8220;test smell&#8221; to me.</p>
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		<title>By: James Thigpen</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/mokhan/2008/08/15/droppin-pennies-on-context-specs/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>James Thigpen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/mokhan/archive/2008/08/15/droppin-pennies-on-context-specs.aspx#comment-20</guid>
		<description>Groovy, I like the order.

A concrete example that&#039;s not completely trivial would I think be beneficial.  Trying to break into BDD there just aren&#039;t that many examples to draw from that aren&#039;t completely synthetic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Groovy, I like the order.</p>
<p>A concrete example that&#8217;s not completely trivial would I think be beneficial.  Trying to break into BDD there just aren&#8217;t that many examples to draw from that aren&#8217;t completely synthetic.</p>
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