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	<title>Comments on: Introducing SpecMaker “Rspec style” BDD in C#</title>
	<atom:link href="http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c/</link>
	<description>The small minded meanderings of the confused</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 15 Apr 2013 15:10:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Mohammad Azam</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c/#comment-79</link>
		<dc:creator>Mohammad Azam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 06:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/rssvihla/archive/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c.aspx#comment-79</guid>
		<description>Hi, 

I have been implementing unit test BDD style using underscores. Although I do not mind that approach but I am always in search for a simpler solution. To be clear BDD is not only about how to name our test methods. Anyway, that is another discussion. 

I recently wrote few unit tests bdd style using IronSpec framework which is part of IronRuby. I was amazed how simple BDD test became when implemented in IronSpec. Here is a link to my article which describe the approach. Scroll down to the bottom to see the updated code. 

http://highoncoding.com/Articles/585_Unit_Testing_CLR_Assembly_Using_IronRuby_with_Spec.aspx

    </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, </p>
<p>I have been implementing unit test BDD style using underscores. Although I do not mind that approach but I am always in search for a simpler solution. To be clear BDD is not only about how to name our test methods. Anyway, that is another discussion. </p>
<p>I recently wrote few unit tests bdd style using IronSpec framework which is part of IronRuby. I was amazed how simple BDD test became when implemented in IronSpec. Here is a link to my article which describe the approach. Scroll down to the bottom to see the updated code. </p>
<p><a href="http://highoncoding.com/Articles/585_Unit_Testing_CLR_Assembly_Using_IronRuby_with_Spec.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://highoncoding.com/Articles/585_Unit_Testing_CLR_Assembly_Using_IronRuby_with_Spec.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Svihla</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c/#comment-78</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Svihla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 02:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/rssvihla/archive/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c.aspx#comment-78</guid>
		<description>@joe
/me shakes fist

yes and its shaping to be more like shoulda the more I work with it.  I will have to strangle both you and Jason later for infecting my brain with such concepts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@joe<br />
/me shakes fist</p>
<p>yes and its shaping to be more like shoulda the more I work with it.  I will have to strangle both you and Jason later for infecting my brain with such concepts.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Ocampo</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Ocampo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:30:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/rssvihla/archive/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c.aspx#comment-77</guid>
		<description>This is more like Shoulda than RSpec :-)

Can&#039;t we all just get along? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is more like Shoulda than RSpec <img src='http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Can&#8217;t we all just get along? </p>
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		<title>By: Amy Thorne</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy Thorne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/rssvihla/archive/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c.aspx#comment-76</guid>
		<description>I just thought I&#039;d throw in my _very_ slight knowledge about IronRuby and RSpec. A few of us tried getting this working at the last London Open Space Coding Day, http://openspacecode.com/, and at least one of us was successful. Here&#039;s a link to where I blogged about it, though I was mostly focusing on Cucumber, so my blog post isn&#039;t all that helpful, http://programmergrrl.blogspot.com/2009/08/open-space-coding-day-notes-tdd-as-if.html.

But as interesting as that is, I&#039;m all for more BDD options that use C# and NUnit, since those are what my current team has standardized on, and sometimes it can be tough to shift a whole team onto another language for writing tests or to using a different testing framework.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just thought I&#8217;d throw in my _very_ slight knowledge about IronRuby and RSpec. A few of us tried getting this working at the last London Open Space Coding Day, <a href="http://openspacecode.com/" rel="nofollow">http://openspacecode.com/</a>, and at least one of us was successful. Here&#8217;s a link to where I blogged about it, though I was mostly focusing on Cucumber, so my blog post isn&#8217;t all that helpful, <a href="http://programmergrrl.blogspot.com/2009/08/open-space-coding-day-notes-tdd-as-if.html" rel="nofollow">http://programmergrrl.blogspot.com/2009/08/open-space-coding-day-notes-tdd-as-if.html</a>.</p>
<p>But as interesting as that is, I&#8217;m all for more BDD options that use C# and NUnit, since those are what my current team has standardized on, and sometimes it can be tough to shift a whole team onto another language for writing tests or to using a different testing framework.</p>
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		<title>By: Eyston</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>Eyston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/rssvihla/archive/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c.aspx#comment-75</guid>
		<description>Yah, I googled on Boo right after my post.  I had just watched Ayende&#039;s Boo and DSL video from NDC and figured Spec tests sound like a good DSL case.  Not a whole lot showed up so it seems to be build yourself right now.

Just googled on IronRuby and RSpec and this came up: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/dd434651.aspx

Haven&#039;t read it yet, but I&#039;m surprised I haven&#039;t seen more blog posts about this if it works well.

I like seeing posts about other people doing BDD.  Its something I feel comfortable with but have yet to have that &#039;click&#039; of understanding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yah, I googled on Boo right after my post.  I had just watched Ayende&#8217;s Boo and DSL video from NDC and figured Spec tests sound like a good DSL case.  Not a whole lot showed up so it seems to be build yourself right now.</p>
<p>Just googled on IronRuby and RSpec and this came up: <a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/dd434651.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/dd434651.aspx</a></p>
<p>Haven&#8217;t read it yet, but I&#8217;m surprised I haven&#8217;t seen more blog posts about this if it works well.</p>
<p>I like seeing posts about other people doing BDD.  Its something I feel comfortable with but have yet to have that &#8216;click&#8217; of understanding.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Svihla</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Svihla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/rssvihla/archive/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c.aspx#comment-74</guid>
		<description>@Peter also i forgot to mention.
This stuff is all on github and very easy for you to fork and create your own suggested &quot;view&quot; of this. If enough people prefer your approach or your work I&#039;ll pull it back in and add it to my branch, and I&#039;ll definitely appreciate the help.

Thanks again for the commentary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Peter also i forgot to mention.<br />
This stuff is all on github and very easy for you to fork and create your own suggested &#8220;view&#8221; of this. If enough people prefer your approach or your work I&#8217;ll pull it back in and add it to my branch, and I&#8217;ll definitely appreciate the help.</p>
<p>Thanks again for the commentary.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Svihla</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Svihla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/rssvihla/archive/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c.aspx#comment-73</guid>
		<description>@Peter I actually had those initially, I actually decided right before this post I don&#039;t like having &quot;chain shoulds&quot; like you have in RSpec.  If you read your example out loud you have should twice, and while that&#039;s a small semantic difference again I found it a pain point when teaching people bdd, especially for those that English was not their first language.

Now that said, there are two important things you should know.

1) You do not have to use those matchers at all, they are totally 100% optional. Just throwing any exception will fail the test (it&#039;ll show status of error), so you can use NUnit asserts, other peoples extensions or really hand code to generate your desired effect.

2)I know not everyone sees things the way i do (which is a good thing), so I&#039;m working right now on a DSL , and an base class to create your own matchers.  RSpec has the same thing so that people can create their specific matchers for each project instead of just having line after line in their specs violating dry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Peter I actually had those initially, I actually decided right before this post I don&#8217;t like having &#8220;chain shoulds&#8221; like you have in RSpec.  If you read your example out loud you have should twice, and while that&#8217;s a small semantic difference again I found it a pain point when teaching people bdd, especially for those that English was not their first language.</p>
<p>Now that said, there are two important things you should know.</p>
<p>1) You do not have to use those matchers at all, they are totally 100% optional. Just throwing any exception will fail the test (it&#8217;ll show status of error), so you can use NUnit asserts, other peoples extensions or really hand code to generate your desired effect.</p>
<p>2)I know not everyone sees things the way i do (which is a good thing), so I&#8217;m working right now on a DSL , and an base class to create your own matchers.  RSpec has the same thing so that people can create their specific matchers for each project instead of just having line after line in their specs violating dry.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Svihla</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c/#comment-72</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Svihla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/rssvihla/archive/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c.aspx#comment-72</guid>
		<description>@Kyle, I had not checked out JP&#039;s BDD framework, I&#039;m certain he has more than a few cool little tidbits in there.  

@Eyston Tooling, and uptake with other developers. Boo is a gorgeous .Net language well suited for building DSL&#039;s and what I&#039;d prefer, but the following make that a non-starter:

For me from a productivity standpoint I lose easy refactoring with Resharper (this is a big time win), and that alone would slow down my BDD flow quite a bit.  If i wrote my own generators and regex based renaming (I like to try that out someday) I could make this a non-issue, but not today.

Finally, try getting your average junior developer who may not even have a great grasp of C# to learn Boo and you&#039;ll quickly see there is a big &quot;cost&quot; to going that route.  BDD is hard enough to teach without actively tossing extra barriers in front of it. Granted I&#039;d get a much much nicer syntax with other languages, I am a bit held back by the realities of a lot of .Net developers reliance on Visual Studio, intellisense and &quot;framework based&quot; learning.

Thanks again everyone for the feedback I really appreciate you all taking the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kyle, I had not checked out JP&#8217;s BDD framework, I&#8217;m certain he has more than a few cool little tidbits in there.  </p>
<p>@Eyston Tooling, and uptake with other developers. Boo is a gorgeous .Net language well suited for building DSL&#8217;s and what I&#8217;d prefer, but the following make that a non-starter:</p>
<p>For me from a productivity standpoint I lose easy refactoring with Resharper (this is a big time win), and that alone would slow down my BDD flow quite a bit.  If i wrote my own generators and regex based renaming (I like to try that out someday) I could make this a non-issue, but not today.</p>
<p>Finally, try getting your average junior developer who may not even have a great grasp of C# to learn Boo and you&#8217;ll quickly see there is a big &#8220;cost&#8221; to going that route.  BDD is hard enough to teach without actively tossing extra barriers in front of it. Granted I&#8217;d get a much much nicer syntax with other languages, I am a bit held back by the realities of a lot of .Net developers reliance on Visual Studio, intellisense and &#8220;framework based&#8221; learning.</p>
<p>Thanks again everyone for the feedback I really appreciate you all taking the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c/#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/rssvihla/archive/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c.aspx#comment-71</guid>
		<description>If nothing else, please look into the anyObject.Should******() extension methods the other frameworks are using...if you can adopt the same extension method library the rest of them use, it&#039;s one less thing for us to memorize.

So your assertion would change to be
_game.lives.ShouldEqual(3);</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If nothing else, please look into the anyObject.Should******() extension methods the other frameworks are using&#8230;if you can adopt the same extension method library the rest of them use, it&#8217;s one less thing for us to memorize.</p>
<p>So your assertion would change to be<br />
_game.lives.ShouldEqual(3);</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle Baley</title>
		<link>http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle Baley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/blogs/rssvihla/archive/2009/08/08/introducing-specmaker-rspec-style-bdd-in-c.aspx#comment-70</guid>
		<description>Have you looked at JP Boodhoo&#039;s BDD framework? It has a similar kind of syntax with helper methods as well (though tied to MbUnit). It also has a spec generator that dumps everything into pretty report. You might get some ideas from it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you looked at JP Boodhoo&#8217;s BDD framework? It has a similar kind of syntax with helper methods as well (though tied to MbUnit). It also has a spec generator that dumps everything into pretty report. You might get some ideas from it.</p>
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