Comments on: Domain Specific Languages with Boo: AST Macros http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2010/04/05/domain-specific-languages-with-boo-ast-macros/ The small minded meanderings of the confused Mon, 15 Apr 2013 15:10:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Julian Birch http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2010/04/05/domain-specific-languages-with-boo-ast-macros/#comment-145 Julian Birch Wed, 07 Apr 2010 19:01:07 +0000 /blogs/rssvihla/archive/2010/04/04/domain-specific-languages-with-boo-ast-macros.aspx#comment-145 Fair enough, my experience of Boo Macros isn't huge, but I've tried implementing my own, and came to the conclusion that it didn't really have the power I needed (It evaluates before it's done type resolution.) My principal experience is with Binsor, which is great when things are going well, but a nightmare when they're not: figuring out the syntax requires you to read several thousand lines of code... I still think that diagnostics, in particular, are a serious issue if you ever start to heavily use it. Admittedly, my own argument here is reminding me of the people who told me that they didn't think I should use delegates in my code because people wouldn't understand them... Fair enough, my experience of Boo Macros isn’t huge, but I’ve tried implementing my own, and came to the conclusion that it didn’t really have the power I needed (It evaluates before it’s done type resolution.) My principal experience is with Binsor, which is great when things are going well, but a nightmare when they’re not: figuring out the syntax requires you to read several thousand lines of code…

I still think that diagnostics, in particular, are a serious issue if you ever start to heavily use it. Admittedly, my own argument here is reminding me of the people who told me that they didn’t think I should use delegates in my code because people wouldn’t understand them…

]]> By: Ryan Svihla http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2010/04/05/domain-specific-languages-with-boo-ast-macros/#comment-144 Ryan Svihla Tue, 06 Apr 2010 02:18:19 +0000 /blogs/rssvihla/archive/2010/04/04/domain-specific-languages-with-boo-ast-macros.aspx#comment-144 @Julian I think that's a bit extreme as there are well documented problems with every approach, macro's have their place and it's more about tradeoffs. This case was a simple way to show how it works, please don't take it as a use case, as this was a unit test. Think of macros as a CLR version of standalone function objects and use them accordingly. They're nice in DSL creation and not something I'd recommend you make heavy use of in general purpose programming. @Julian I think that’s a bit extreme as there are well documented problems with every approach, macro’s have their place and it’s more about tradeoffs.

This case was a simple way to show how it works, please don’t take it as a use case, as this was a unit test.

Think of macros as a CLR version of standalone function objects and use them accordingly. They’re nice in DSL creation and not something I’d recommend you make heavy use of in general purpose programming.

]]> By: Julian Birch http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2010/04/05/domain-specific-languages-with-boo-ast-macros/#comment-143 Julian Birch Mon, 05 Apr 2010 10:58:50 +0000 /blogs/rssvihla/archive/2010/04/04/domain-specific-languages-with-boo-ast-macros.aspx#comment-143 I'm sorry, it still doesn't strike me that these macros solve more problems than they create. In this case, it strikes me that a base class with a describe method would have been more elegant. If macros get complex, sorting out the compiler errors becomes a nightmare. If they don't, there doesn't seem to be a lot of point. Put it another way: there are an awful lot of well-documented problems with macro programming, and very few of them are addressed by replacing text manipulation with graph manipulation. I think I probably need to expand on this as well... :) I’m sorry, it still doesn’t strike me that these macros solve more problems than they create. In this case, it strikes me that a base class with a describe method would have been more elegant. If macros get complex, sorting out the compiler errors becomes a nightmare. If they don’t, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of point. Put it another way: there are an awful lot of well-documented problems with macro programming, and very few of them are addressed by replacing text manipulation with graph manipulation.

I think I probably need to expand on this as well… :)

]]> By: derick.bailey http://lostechies.com/ryansvihla/2010/04/05/domain-specific-languages-with-boo-ast-macros/#comment-142 derick.bailey Mon, 05 Apr 2010 02:44:31 +0000 /blogs/rssvihla/archive/2010/04/04/domain-specific-languages-with-boo-ast-macros.aspx#comment-142 "the entire subject of what is a DSL and what types of DSL there are and how to create a proper DSL could be a book itself and a fascinating one at that." yup! http://martinfowler.com/dslwip/ :) “the entire subject of what is a DSL and what types of DSL there are and how to create a proper DSL could be a book itself and a fascinating one at that.”

yup! http://martinfowler.com/dslwip/ :)

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